F: Do you remember talking to Judith Miller on July 8th?
L: Yes.
(discussion of what Miller had been up to — just back from Iraq, etc.)
L: This was our first meeting, or she may have come to my office once before. She's a very responsible reporter, and I'd wanted to meet her because she cares about the WMD issue and threats to America. As we started to discuss week of July 7th, the NIE had said … (discusses NIE, asks for permission to discussion January 24 document) A January 24 document had said exactly the same thing as the NIE supporting the notion of Iraq seeking uranium from Niger. The CIA had issued this in October 2002 and January 2003, and we wanted people to know that this went against what Wilson said.
I was unaware that she was not writing during this period, but the VP instructed me to talk to Judith Miller. I said, but NIE is classified, but Cheney said Pres. had authorized it. Libby went to Addington to confirm that Pres. could declassify (this is all stuff that has been reported, so sorry if I miss details). So the Pres and VP wanted me to discuss this, and I selected Judith Miller because I felt she was a responsible reporter (Uhh, you just said Cheney picked her, didnt you?).
(Fitz and Libby discuss declassification of NIE and Jan. 24th document, Addington saying Pres has absolute ability to declassify anything whenever he want — this has all been reported previously)
F: Getting back to Judith Miller, did you talk about Mr. Wilson?
L: I don't remember specifically, but probably since we discussed.
F: What about Mr. Wilson's wife?
L: I don't believe I did.
F: Do you recall a meeting on July 9th chaired by Stephen Hadley?
L: Not specifically.
F: Hadley was angry, saying that Tenet was upset by Andrea Mitchell report… do you recall him looking at Cathie Martin and Claire Buchan of OVP?
L: Not specifically.
F: This was just after you spoke with Andrea Mitchell, right?
(Fitz explains that Martin and Buchan were removed from contacting CIA during that period, Libby says he doesn't remember it for that reason, was because of work on Tenet statement at higher levels)
F: Do you recall Hadley saying on July 9th that we need to do something about Wilson now, discredit him? (Oh, my.)
L: I don't recall that specific phrase, but I'd have to check my notes.
F: Do you remember that concept coming across, regardless of specific words?
L: Yes, to discredit what Wilson was saying. Don't recall about discrediting him personally.
F: (pulls out notes) Do you recall Rove complaining that Wilson was viewed as a credible expert?
L: Remember wanting to discredit his story, but not him personally
F: Were people saying, "Let's be careful to discredit his story, but not discredit him personally"?
L: Don't recall any statement like that.
F: Do you recall an effort to push back on Wilson's credibility that week?
L: Yes, trying to get statement from Rice and Tenet explaining that Wilson's findings didn't really undermine intelligence, but supported it (gives the whole spiel again)
It's 11:36am ET.
L: Yes.
(discussion of what Miller had been up to — just back from Iraq, etc.)
L: This was our first meeting, or she may have come to my office once before. She's a very responsible reporter, and I'd wanted to meet her because she cares about the WMD issue and threats to America. As we started to discuss week of July 7th, the NIE had said … (discusses NIE, asks for permission to discussion January 24 document) A January 24 document had said exactly the same thing as the NIE supporting the notion of Iraq seeking uranium from Niger. The CIA had issued this in October 2002 and January 2003, and we wanted people to know that this went against what Wilson said.
I was unaware that she was not writing during this period, but the VP instructed me to talk to Judith Miller. I said, but NIE is classified, but Cheney said Pres. had authorized it. Libby went to Addington to confirm that Pres. could declassify (this is all stuff that has been reported, so sorry if I miss details). So the Pres and VP wanted me to discuss this, and I selected Judith Miller because I felt she was a responsible reporter (Uhh, you just said Cheney picked her, didnt you?).
(Fitz and Libby discuss declassification of NIE and Jan. 24th document, Addington saying Pres has absolute ability to declassify anything whenever he want — this has all been reported previously)
F: Getting back to Judith Miller, did you talk about Mr. Wilson?
L: I don't remember specifically, but probably since we discussed.
F: What about Mr. Wilson's wife?
L: I don't believe I did.
F: Do you recall a meeting on July 9th chaired by Stephen Hadley?
L: Not specifically.
F: Hadley was angry, saying that Tenet was upset by Andrea Mitchell report… do you recall him looking at Cathie Martin and Claire Buchan of OVP?
L: Not specifically.
F: This was just after you spoke with Andrea Mitchell, right?
(Fitz explains that Martin and Buchan were removed from contacting CIA during that period, Libby says he doesn't remember it for that reason, was because of work on Tenet statement at higher levels)
F: Do you recall Hadley saying on July 9th that we need to do something about Wilson now, discredit him? (Oh, my.)
L: I don't recall that specific phrase, but I'd have to check my notes.
F: Do you remember that concept coming across, regardless of specific words?
L: Yes, to discredit what Wilson was saying. Don't recall about discrediting him personally.
F: (pulls out notes) Do you recall Rove complaining that Wilson was viewed as a credible expert?
L: Remember wanting to discredit his story, but not him personally
F: Were people saying, "Let's be careful to discredit his story, but not discredit him personally"?
L: Don't recall any statement like that.
F: Do you recall an effort to push back on Wilson's credibility that week?
L: Yes, trying to get statement from Rice and Tenet explaining that Wilson's findings didn't really undermine intelligence, but supported it (gives the whole spiel again)
It's 11:36am ET.
Update 2:
F: Did you consider Wilson's wife working at the CIA as something that undermined his credibility?
L: No, I thought he was credible to do what he did.
F: Do you believe it reflected nepotism in his hiring?
L: I… I don't think I knew then why he was hired. That didn't come out until later, with the Rove report. (??? I have no idea what this means. ???)
F: You're clear that you didn't give this information with Ari Fleischer
L: I don't recall it. I'm sorry to keep repeating this, but all I recall is being surprised when I talked about it with Tim Russert.
F: (pulls out note from conversation about Tenet statement, with references to Cheney, Hadley, plus Harlow/McLaughlin on CIA)
F: Does this say, "Wilson is declassified"?
L: Yes.
F: Does this say, "The president is comfortable"?
L: Yes.
F: And the next line:
L: Hadley saying it's the NIE should be leaked.
F: Did anyone say it was OK to leak the NIE that week?
L: I had already talked to Judith Miller, with the President's approval.
F: Did you tell Hadley this?
L: No.
F: Why not?
L: Because the VP was there, and he knew, and didn't say anything.
F: What is this line?
L: Hadley saying whole truth has to get out, and he'd told Tenet that.
F: Was he getting ticked off?
L: More or less, Tenet statement was supposed to come out Tuesday, and was being delayed.
F: Tell me about conversation with Mr. Russert.
L: Chris Matthews has a TV show, and is an outspoken fellow, and he was saying Wilson report had been seen by VP and should have convinced WH that Niger uranium intelligence was false, not even referring to denials by WH, OVP, and CIA. This was frustrating to us, and we wanted him to acknowledge that the public record was different. Wasn't first time Matthews had criticized us. So I called Mary Matalin and asked for advice on how we should get Matthews to acknowledge public record. Mary had own opinions on where we were, so she gave them, then suggested I call Tim Russert.
So I called Russert, can't remember if I got him right away or had to call back. We spoke briefly, and then I turned to our issues. I mentioned Andrea Mitchell but said I'm not really calling about Mitchell, then went into problems with Matthews. I think Russert said he had to call me back. And I think in the second phone call, if there was one, or a delay in the first call, we had a fuller conversation. He said not much he could do about Chris Matthews, and then he said did you know Ambassador Wilson's wife works for the CIA? I remember being taken aback by that, and I said "No, I don't know that." Intentionally, because I didn't want him to take me as confirming it. Because I had forgotten by then that I had ever known.
So he said wife works at CIA, and I said, "I don't know that," and he said, "Yeah, all the reporters know that," and I said "I don't know that." Again.
F: What was resolution with Chris Matthews.
L: We were told to go to his producer. In short, I struck out.
F: Did he give you the name of the producer?
L: Yes. I think it's Shapiro.
F: Did you call him?
L: No. We asked someone in the WH press office who knew him. Adam Levine.
F: Did he succeed?
L: No. Matthews kept saying same things.
It's 11:55am ET.
L: No, I thought he was credible to do what he did.
F: Do you believe it reflected nepotism in his hiring?
L: I… I don't think I knew then why he was hired. That didn't come out until later, with the Rove report. (??? I have no idea what this means. ???)
F: You're clear that you didn't give this information with Ari Fleischer
L: I don't recall it. I'm sorry to keep repeating this, but all I recall is being surprised when I talked about it with Tim Russert.
F: (pulls out note from conversation about Tenet statement, with references to Cheney, Hadley, plus Harlow/McLaughlin on CIA)
F: Does this say, "Wilson is declassified"?
L: Yes.
F: Does this say, "The president is comfortable"?
L: Yes.
F: And the next line:
L: Hadley saying it's the NIE should be leaked.
F: Did anyone say it was OK to leak the NIE that week?
L: I had already talked to Judith Miller, with the President's approval.
F: Did you tell Hadley this?
L: No.
F: Why not?
L: Because the VP was there, and he knew, and didn't say anything.
F: What is this line?
L: Hadley saying whole truth has to get out, and he'd told Tenet that.
F: Was he getting ticked off?
L: More or less, Tenet statement was supposed to come out Tuesday, and was being delayed.
F: Tell me about conversation with Mr. Russert.
L: Chris Matthews has a TV show, and is an outspoken fellow, and he was saying Wilson report had been seen by VP and should have convinced WH that Niger uranium intelligence was false, not even referring to denials by WH, OVP, and CIA. This was frustrating to us, and we wanted him to acknowledge that the public record was different. Wasn't first time Matthews had criticized us. So I called Mary Matalin and asked for advice on how we should get Matthews to acknowledge public record. Mary had own opinions on where we were, so she gave them, then suggested I call Tim Russert.
So I called Russert, can't remember if I got him right away or had to call back. We spoke briefly, and then I turned to our issues. I mentioned Andrea Mitchell but said I'm not really calling about Mitchell, then went into problems with Matthews. I think Russert said he had to call me back. And I think in the second phone call, if there was one, or a delay in the first call, we had a fuller conversation. He said not much he could do about Chris Matthews, and then he said did you know Ambassador Wilson's wife works for the CIA? I remember being taken aback by that, and I said "No, I don't know that." Intentionally, because I didn't want him to take me as confirming it. Because I had forgotten by then that I had ever known.
So he said wife works at CIA, and I said, "I don't know that," and he said, "Yeah, all the reporters know that," and I said "I don't know that." Again.
F: What was resolution with Chris Matthews.
L: We were told to go to his producer. In short, I struck out.
F: Did he give you the name of the producer?
L: Yes. I think it's Shapiro.
F: Did you call him?
L: No. We asked someone in the WH press office who knew him. Adam Levine.
F: Did he succeed?
L: No. Matthews kept saying same things.
It's 11:55am ET.
More on the Libby trial.
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